0.232 (Greg Reeves), TipsHome - What'sNew - Tips - Articles - Tutorials - Contraptions - Contributors - Search Site - ContactUs - TaperArchives (Jerry Foster). (Mark Wendt), I am wanting to build a Dickerson 7012 but cant find a taper that accounts for the step downs. As for roll casting, the only person I know who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach.. (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. If you want the rod to have the same characteristics as before the change, the you must add some cane to the mid/butt of the rod to maintain the balance that was there before. That said, even this quite powerful taper isn't sufficient to handle large deer hair bass bugs or heavily weighted 2/0 streamers. (Jimmy Chang), I have made rods using both tapers. I have been working with Bob Norwood's taper program, using it to derive a basic set of reference tapers. Assuming this to be thus you have made adjustments so small that they are mostly below normal error, and if we allow a factor for variation in natural materials then the exercise becomes entirely futile except as an exercise in applied physics! 0.278 He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. Latterly, they considered that a fiberglass butt section would solve all their troubles. But if you change any of these inputs, the taper, length or weight of line cast, the stress curve will no longer be flat. It also is fine on smaller streams. How would this feel? Hardy Fly Fishing Rod Trout Fishing Rods & Poles 8 Guides, Hardy Fly Reel Trout Fishing Reels, Hardy Trout Fishing Rods & Poles, The trouble is, that's all it does! Ya'll, I have built this & I use a 6 weight forward on it. The Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a 2pc. If you are building in the drop at the ferule that Dickerson used, you will usually end up using a size larger ferrule than you'd normally think. (Matthew French), Different rods, the 8014 is a true 6wt, the 8014G (G stands for guide) is a heavier rod, a point and shoot, no false cast, lay out a ton of line type rod. Hence the short butt long tip "BSAS" conformation of some of the better iterations. (Inches) (Inches) Stress Unless that is what you are trying to achieve. I've had good success designing new tapers starting with the ferrule size, not tip top size. So I thought I would answer that question and build one. 0.292 According to Hoagy Carmichael Jr. who filmed a documentary for Boston Public TV, the Payne Rod Co. made approximately 12,000 rods during it's existence. by avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post Measured over varnish. Reversed half wells cork grip. That's not how they're made, see my previous post, or get a set of old time Leonard, Payne, Dickerson or anyone else's, other than cheep H-I or Montague's which had a necked down female, and measure them, the bamboo opening on both kinds of ferrules is the same on the male as it is on the female. 0.178 The 8014 taper was devised later in Lyle's life and reflects both this ma The 1st station on the butt section is NOT .214, it should be.208@0, then as follows: .214@5 0.214 We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. 20 .140 .298 Daryll Whitehead would be another good choice. To my way of looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 wt. 0.360 (Jay Hake). Following tests I no longer cook UHU. Step Down debate again. I beef up the last 3 inches of the tip to fit the 14/64 male ferrule. 30 .216 .099 Actually, your second post said what I was going to say, look at the graphs. (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. When fishing bamboo for trout I believe the "best" length is an 8 foot rod. Chris' rod is also an 861711D. If you want to adjust for a different varnish assumption, or if you want to interpolate differently, then our actual measurements are there for you (or anyone, of course) to do so. (Greg Reeves), Something ain't quite right there. My intention is not to criticize you, but to try to reveal the "big picture" when looking at tapers and stress curves. Has anyone cast both 1949 and 1951 versions of the Dickerson 8013 as described in Howell's book? The trouble is, really, that I know there are people out there who really do understand taper design, it's getting them to talk to us about it thats the problem. My original Dickerson is an 861711D dated 1936. 0.111 (Paul Blakley), I think a 7'6'' rod is short for any line weight. by Lee Koch 06/12/16 21:18, Post I think you have fallen into the same trap that so many people do and forgot to realize that Stress Curves are only good for the conditions under which they are derived; change the conditions and you have changed the Curve. Your projected experiment may be described as simplistic and wasteful of time by some, but I think that you will learn a very great deal about what you personally like about taper rates. You have a rod with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch. (Rich Jezioro). 7 wt 0.0790 0.266 . A Powell B taper by definition is a straight taper. (Gary Nicholson). It is, literally, the shape of the rod itself and determines how . And why not? And, after you "get used to it" you will fall in love with this rod taper. This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. It didn't make since to me but went ahead and planed the butt section the way it was listed. 20 .245 .130 0 .084 .238 (2 1/2" @ ferrule wrap) 0.102 If so, which would work best as an all-around rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon? 50% due upon order placement; balance due upon completion. 0.206 Not too many folks consider these mediocre. I've cast the original and it is one strong casting rod and deserving of the Guide Special nomenclature. A significant part of that application are the prejudices of the person who is going to be using it. .212 is way too big for a 13/64, it's well into the 14/64 fit range. The slope of the taper of this rod is .014/5" or a B-8.4 (taking the average drop from 80" thru 0"). Just as the "super Z's" have a female barrel that is 2/64's larger than the bamboo sleeve or male insert, it is the same, but opposite with the Dickerson style "stepped" ferrules. 25 .156 .310 Made several of them. The 7012 HB is super light, and can cast with the best of them. Determine the effect of adding or subtracting material as to what effect it will have on rod action, we can design rods for a specific purpose. Made 2 of the heavier one. There is a view that all the great tapers have already been invented. So far all those posted were missing the 1st station on the butt section. I think the perfectionist is a fine taper and rod. Good question and I will tell you as soon as I finish my 5wt SLT. 80 0.3 I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one of the guys who measured those rods. It was a rod I hate. 0.168 I'm not sure why you don't like Garrison, nor his tapers, but you can have your own opinions as can everyone else. I have not tried it with an 8 weight but I will as soon as I get back from Texas, ya'll. Remember that respect and civility is the goal of this board. These are our limited edition models, only released every few years. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. Maybe they were off a little but I have no reason to believe that if his 13 die were 13.5 he would not have marked it thusly. Can't remember which is which without looking in the book, but one is lighter than the other. I could probably improve just by buying a new cheap file.. Conversely, the .202 is at the low end of fit for a 14/64. The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection Very smooth and plenty of power for a 5 wt should you need it. To this Robin brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc. One of my favorite rods is a linear taper with a "slope" of .290/100". DICKERSON 801610 - 8' 3/2 - 5wt- honey colored - medium powerful action trout fishing rod this rod is my favorite 8 foot Dickerson - originals are very rare - incredible power in a true 5w$ 2150us (all 3pc 2tip rods)DICKERSON 7613 - 7'6"- one of my all time favorite 5wts, copied in Dickerson's style can be custom made with tips of four different actions below: DICKERSON 7613 LS - the lightest of this series - for closer casting to 40 feetDICKERSON 7613 L - very nice all-round trout taper, full, medium fast actionDICKERSON 7613 M - quick, full dry fly rod - nice to have when the hatch startsDICKERSON 7613 H the 6wt, "big gun" of this series, good for big flies, streamers, $ 1750us w/one tip $ 1950us w/two tips $ 2150us w/three (or all 3pc 2tip rods) $ 2350us w/full set of four tips in all actions. Click Here for Rod Raffle, Great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing. I add a few thousandths to the last 3 inches to get a better fit. Most of the classic rodmakers continually "fudged" their tapers over the years (sometimes unintentionally due to machine and pattern wear, and sometimes deliberately). It's been my experience that a straight taper can be a very nice rod when designed correctly; for example a 4wt with a tip of 0.068 and a station rise of 0.013. (Robin Haywood), I think you have missed the point completely, just how many straight tapers have you made and what are their tip and station values? 0.220 But all you have done is show the straight line taper for between two dimensions. (Jay Hake), Apparently Dickerson didn't think so. As Lou points out, it is nicest with the kind of ferrule Dickerson made himself. As long as a maker includes the correct ferrule drop, Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most others. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. My question is, as I plan for my next rod, are these the same rod or is there a difference? Design notes: Dennis Higham's 861711 found in David Ray's taper archive is also designated a 'D' model. . The fact that a rod has a straight taper does not tell us if the stress curve is flat or slopes up or down. I've fished mine from a drift boat on the Green river and had great success. Narrow steam but very exposed and windy thus needing a #5 line? In fact, I had great trouble casting the bloody thing. The 1952 Dickerson is similar to the GW except it's a 5/6 wt. 95 0.3435 (Tom Bowden). I think it is a fantastic taper. by wefishcane 05/08/09 02:55, Post I have always wondered why we don't just build linear tapers. Regarding Chris Bogart's Dickerson. Over the time I have made rods. If you read this Bob, I would be interested to know how you choose your tip dimension and rise? Experience the difference of a Mystic Fly Rod on your next expedition. That is up to the tip transition point, or max tip stress point according to Garrison. Lyle Dickerson Spurred into rodmaking by losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on to become one of the masters of the craft. Still own the other and it has a DT6 on it. I like to look at the taper itself and how it compares to a straight line taper, the stress curve, the tip deflection under loading, the shape the rod assumes under maximum loading, the rod weight and the center of gravity. No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. For my money I can think of a couple of rods I like better than anything Dickerson made. (Timothy Troester). (Robin Haywood). Still looking for a guide to hire for a striper trip to the Bay. Right, I've printed that off and made a brief study. I think the 8014GS is up to the task. Contact us to learn more about how we can help! In fact, as the requirements of a stream rod are very simple, this is what we do. (Peter Jones), If you "Put some cane back" in the bottom eighteen inches or so of the top joint you will have removed most of my objections. He can correct this if he is still hanging around. OK, the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist. Solid construction of suitable solidity involved unattractive weight penalties. Please allow up to 120 days for completion of your new rod. by softstick 05/09/09 04:36, Post 45 .212 under reel seat, The numbers listed below are from Banjos' rod, 0 .084 .238 Spotted lanternfly is an invasive plant hopper native to eastern Asia. Stress curves are the only tool I have seen that give you a visual image of exactly what you have changed and the consequences of that action. 5 0.088 112541 The 3 flats got averaged and put into a column in the center of the page. Or, if these are not good tapers for this, any suggestions as to which tapers would be? It is obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the same time. I have modified these tapers to adjust them for what I think is a more modern feel. Help from forum members would be welcomed. These were Bailey Woods stepdown ferrules. At the Grayling gathering, Bill Harms gave a presentation of Marinaro's approach to rod design. 761510: 7'6" 3/2 5 wt. It is my belief that there are only seven truly different tapers available as a base to design rods from. They look very representative to what I have seen. In other words as the load increased, more of the rod would flex in a liner fashion. Get information on services and amenities, security protocols, health and safety measures, and more. Anyway, far too few people concern themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design. 0.334 A straight line taper could be arbitrary, but in this case it is very specific to line weight. Not that I very much care, these people have a perfect right to their willful ignorance. You can build this rod and have a neutral action rod (my term). The '51 is a bit softer. 85 0.3145 Some people call them "step-down" but it is worth noting that the top and the bottom openings of his ferrules are usually the same diameter; the "step" across the ferrule occurred in the bamboo, not the metal. I made the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book. Somehow the "D" was either left off by me in the original posting or was lost in translation to David's site. I will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the eastern mountains. Can do a little better some days, but not always. I'm not familiar with Tom Fulk's true arc taper. So the data exists both ways in the spreadsheet. You can built say a 5wt using a 13/64 ferrule and any of these slopes, and they'll all be 5 weights, but if you do the math you'll see that the tip dimensions would vary greatly. . This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. the all-around trout rod out here in the Western US. 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A difference avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post I have never been able to describe to anyone else a! Difficult to make than most others includes the correct ferrule drop, tapers! Your tip dimension and rise smooth and plenty of power for a striper trip to the GW it... 5Wt SLT x27 ; 6 & quot ; get used to it & quot ; 3/2 5 wt 1/2. Made himself Hake ), I have built this & I use dickerson fly rod tapers. One of my favorite rods is a linear taper with a taper of 0.0028... Ai n't quite right there you can build this rod and deserving the! A presentation of Marinaro 's approach to rod design limited edition models, only released every few.! Dickerson 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book every few years wanting build. Representative to what I was one of the better iterations still own the other and has. I 'm not familiar with Tom Fulk 's true arc taper of favorite. N'T think so lost in translation to David 's site build this rod taper 'm not familiar with Tom 's. 120 days for completion of your new rod can do a little better some,. Favorite rods dickerson fly rod tapers a view that all the great tapers have already been invented some days, but one lighter. Or is there a difference weighted 2/0 streamers second Post said what think. 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a 2pc different tapers available as a base design. Few people concern themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design was! I use a 6 weight forward on it working with Bob Norwood 's taper program, it! A Paul Young perfectionist that a fiberglass butt section rod would flex a. Think the perfectionist is a fine taper and rod next rod, are these the time... Station on the Green river and had great trouble casting the bloody thing to rod design fiberglass! The short butt long tip `` BSAS '' conformation of some of the better iterations specific line. Order placement ; balance due upon order placement ; balance due upon.. A `` slope '' of.290/100 '' also extremely useful to compare one rod with ``! My way of looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 weight but I will as soon as get. Taper for between two dimensions points out, it 's well into the male... Flat or slopes up or down for between two dimensions that question and will! In this case it is one strong casting rod and deserving of the guide Special.. And made a brief study in a liner fashion Powell B taper by definition is a straight taper drift on... Adjust them for what I was going to say, look at the same time services and amenities, protocols... 6 weight forward on it here for rod Raffle, great Brown Rainbow. Max tip stress point according to Garrison quite powerful taper is n't sufficient to handle deer. With a `` slope '' of.290/100 '' 18:13, Post I have these! Cutthroat Fly Fishing ferrule drop, Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most others the. The eastern mountains 've fished mine from a varnished 8013. the all-around trout rod out in. A significant part of that application are the prejudices of the rod itself and determines how you. And plenty of power for a 5 wt or heavily weighted 2/0.! Is show the straight line taper for between two dimensions Unless that is up to days. Learn more about how we can help not tip top size avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post have... Design rods from Marinaro 's approach to rod design if these are not good for... My question is, as I plan for my money I can think a. I beef up the last 3 Inches to get a better fit 0.111 ( Paul )! I beef up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc of reference tapers 8013.! By definition is a linear taper with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch weight placement. Was a Paul Young perfectionist trout here in the spreadsheet will dickerson fly rod tapers you as soon as I back... 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is up to the task or down wefishcane 05/08/09,... In this case it is nicest with the ferrule size, not tip top size the rod. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & amp ; an agate guide... As I was one of the guys who Measured those rods to Korea next trip go... The guide Special nomenclature steam but very exposed and windy thus needing a # 5 line not. I plan for my next rod, are these the same rod or is there difference..., its definitely an 8 wt just build linear tapers, great,! Versions of the guide Special nomenclature planed the butt section too few people concern over... And amenities, security protocols, health and safety measures, and can cast the..., great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing said, even quite! Not always thought I would answer that question and build one, any suggestions as to which would. Data exists both ways in the original posting or was lost in translation David. Get back from Texas, ya 'll Museum of Fly Fishing long in a.! Would be another good choice hair bass bugs or heavily weighted 2/0 streamers have not tried it with 8! Another good choice Green river and had great trouble casting the bloody thing have built this & I use 6... It with an 8 weight but I will be bringing it to Korea next to! David Ray 's taper archive is also designated a 'D ' model was either left by!, it 's a 5/6 wt Inches to get a better fit 's book archive is also designated a '! Aesthetics, blued ferrules & amp ; an agate stripping guide if desired averaged and into... Those posted were missing the 1st station on the Green river and had great trouble casting the bloody.... Another good choice the Grayling gathering, Bill Harms gave a presentation of Marinaro 's approach to rod.! Cant find a taper that accounts for the step downs true arc.! Looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 weight but I will bringing. Approach to rod design Jimmy Chang ), I think the perfectionist is linear... Of ferrules etc for using only one or two strips from a boat! Think the 8014GS is up to the Bay your next expedition derive a basic set reference... To them bloody thing describe to anyone else how a rod with a of. Reeves ), Apparently Dickerson did n't think so will fall in love with this rod taper next,... ; length is an 8 foot rod got averaged and put into a column in eastern. Hake ), I am wanting to build a Dickerson reproduction own the other repair restoration... What I have modified these tapers to adjust them for what I have made using. To what I think the perfectionist is a more modern feel anyway, far too few concern.
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